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tv   Bulls and Bears  FOX News  December 13, 2014 7:00am-7:31am PST

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crowd. our thanks to omaha steaks. you are a scholar and gentleman and steak master of the first water. >> there's more coming up after the show. go to the big spenders are back. and now they are taking more of your money and passing it to illegal immigrants. packed inside the $1.1 trillion bill is nearly 1 billion bucks to help illegals get established here in the u.s. is this more proof the president's executive actions will keep costing us all? hi, i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls and bears." here they are, the bulls and bears this week. gary, tracy, jonas, max, john along with chuck. welcome to everybody. gary b., is this $1 billion just the beginning? >> tip of the iceberg, brenda.
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exactly. let me throw other facts in here. first of all thrks is a program that 20% of americans favor. why obama is doing this, i don't know. well, i do know. he's trying to get more and more voters into the democratic party. there's other tidbits in there. we are providing, you and i, brenda, american taxpayers $7 million for them to have lawyers so they can fight any immigration case in court. on top of this, let's not forget, most of these people are going to qualify for the earned income tax credit. there is billions upon billions of dollars. the problem is not only will that payment grow with more and more immigrants, it's the most fraudulent program. if there's fraud now, we have all these immigrants come in, that's going to expand probably tenfold. this is a money hole that obama created and no one wants this. >> chuck, do you? does it make sense to you?
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>> you are talking one-half of one percent of this budget. just on this specifically, this is adding not only more lawyers, but judges to deal with the influx of these children, mind you, coming across the border. there's going to be a fight on the executive action. they will have the spending run out in february. these were the basic humanitarian needs to move forward. >> can we afford this? should we be paying for it? >> no. the bill in itself, no, we can't. this is politics as usual. chuck is right. it's a small percentage. the principle is what's important here. forget about the executive action of whether it was good or bad. the republicans ran on the fact they would not fund a border policy without a policy change. they didn't flip-flop, they lied. they absolutely lied. they rolled over and said hey, we want to go home for christmas so we are going to pass the bill. we are going to pass this $1.1
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trillion bill, politics as usual. the republicans were given a mandate. they completely broke it. democrats did the same thing. they passed a bill, business as usual. it shows the hypocrisy in congress and why we can't afford the $1.1 trillion spending bill. >> tracy, john said this was a flip-flop. in truth, this is hypocrisy and a billion bucks. >> they caved. i don't know how else to describe it. they completely caved. they come off a victory run and hand it back to the losing team. why didn't that fight. let the democrats shut the government down. do something. show muscle. they gave in on nothing. one small piece of dodd-frank is being deregulated. that is it. they handed a blank slate to the democrats and said do what you
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want. >> getting back to this issue, jonas, can we afford it and should we be paying? >> just because we can afford it doesn't mean we should. this is money that was spent the years before. it went up 10%. they were allocating money for the things in previous years before the president's executive order. as far as, is it good policy going forward, it will increase to gary's point. there's losers with letting a lot of people get work. there's also some winners. in a perfect situation, we put the resources toward security and jails and all this stuff. unemployment was high to minimize the labor force. when it's low, lower than today, you want extra workers to come in so they can raise wages and prices. at this point, we could handle a few more immigrants.
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they are not going to keep flip-flopping because of the recession but that's how it works. >> gary b., this is not just popular. 51% of the people paying for this don't approve of the executive action. >> exactly. i always thought, brenda, and maybe naively, our elected officials work for us. when you have policies like this, like obamacare, that the majority of americans don't want, i don't understand it. when you add on the fact, i get to the point and maybe people like chuck say hey, it's only 1 billion dlarls. who cares? it's money that rightfully belongs to americans. this is coming from our pocketbook. itis not a slush fund out there that obama can pull. he has said for the one, two, three, four, five million illegal immigrants he declared legal are going to qualify for programs like the earned income tax credit. that's $5,000 or more per
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family. add that up, you are talking close to $1 trillion. >> brenda, they are going to get a child tax credit, too. that's more tax dollars out the window. they didn't fight it. i get what jonas is saying, this money has been there, we are rolling it forward. the republicans didn't even put up a fight when they know the majority of americans are against it. >> you are not against it, chuck? answer some of the objections you have heard from the panel. >> just getting work permits and giving visas, you are not going to deport 11 million people. we have had an influx of children running in. give them money to have legal representation to appear before a judge. if they are fleeing, they can have asylum. if not, they can be sent back. we put money into the system to figure out the most humane way. this small provision, we should do that to protect the children.
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>> tracy, why? >> do it right. stop with the piecemeal stuff. it's not going to help uls. no matter what happens over the course of the next few years, the republicans are going to be blamed for it. they set themselves up for failure. they should have put their foot down and demanded a comprehensive bill not the piecemeal things we slip in as christmas presents. >> jonas? >> when you have a lot of poor people living across the borders you are going to have a taxpayer cost one way or the other. you are going to fight to keep them out of jails and that costs money, too. it might cost more than $1 billion. to get aggressive and keep people out of the country costs a lot of money to taxpayers and what benefit? >> jonas, this did not work before. we tried it in '86 and '87 when ronald reagan gave amnesty. i'm not going to debate the term
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amnesty with chuck. we gave work permits. >> like the drug wars. spending money to keep them out of the country. that doesn't work well. seems like it's like fighting the drug war. >> when reagan was expecting border security, that never happened. it was one of three parts that never happened. we are doing the same thing now. we are not dealing with employers hiring illegals or extra border security. we are doing is same thing we did in '86 and '87. it didn't work then and won't work now. >> thanks. democrats are gun hoe on releasing the cia report but gun shy exposing gruber's testimony. up here, first, protesters now taking their rage out on capitalism.
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get ready for a protest against the protesters, next. i'd rather do anything else than sit at a dealership.
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live from america's news headquarters, good morning. it's a working weekend for the senate. lawmakers will debate the spending bill passed by the house on thursday night. a vote may not happen until monday at the earliest. they are urging president obama to approve the measure, calling it imperfect, but necessary for the economy. some democrats are not happy, saying the bill is a sell out to big banks and other corporate interests. in oregon, a 22-year-old man is under arrest for a shooting on a school campus in portland. he opened fire in a drive by shooting, which appears to be gang related. three victims remain hospitalized, one in critical condition.
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witnesses say there may have been a dispute outside the high school yesterday, just before the shooting. i'm kelly wright. now, back to "bulls and bears". the rage against the police. now raging against capitalism. protesters closing highways, hitting banks, shutting down stores across the country. they say this is a battle between the haves and the have nots. this is a battle about economic injustice? >> no. it's criminal thugs and idiots. looters loot, not protesters. dr. king and nelson mandela believed in peaceful protests. if you have a problem with the grand jury, go after them. going after apple because they have money so they must be evil is insane. go after mayor michael bloomberg
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whose given hundreds of millions of dollars to new york. or the rich 1%ers who give hundreds of millions of dollars. they are wanting to cause trouble. they should be arrested. >> chuck, i know you are outraged by what happened in ferguson and here in new york. what does macy's and apple have to do with this? >> i have been going to protests far long time. i am a fan of protests. the american people should rise up and let the government know that. that's what the forefathers said, like john said. going after private businesses is not the way to do that. going back to civil rights and union days, you did not go after people because they were economically wealthy. we all aspire to be wealthy and to have justice in the country. there's a right and wrong way to do it. >> gary, b., what do you think? >> it's a head scratcher. i don't understand the effect. they go and close down apple and
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macy's. what effect is that going to have on the police force of new york city? i scratch my head. and what end do they want? do they want to get rid of capitalism because they think the criminal justice system in communist china is better? it's going to be an upgrade? start with a core group of people and become something more. hey, we have a protest, let's go to apple. why are you going? i don't know it sounds like fun. it's lunacy. >> it is creating havoc. two weeks before christmas, it's going to have impacts. who wants to go shopping at macies with this going on? >> we might hear that if someone didn't do well. capitalism, i.e., the iphone is the reason there's a movement to begin with. people are on their phones,
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tweeting to each other, texting to create this. capitalism is the reason it became big in the first place. they are so misguided, they don't know what they are protesting. capitalism did not do this. unfortunately, they missed the boat on this one. >> jonas, do you think ultimately, this will work against the protesters? >> you know, they are gaining a lot of attention. everyone is covering it. the apple store gets more attention than the police station. no one cares about the police station, at the end of the day. the problem is, this isn't about outsourcing or minimum wages. this is about the police in this country and let's keep the focus on that or you will lose the message. that somehow is about wall street. global warming and other garbage. liberals have to steal from black america. they have a legitimate point there's no protest in staten island where it happened.
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then you have the macy's store. it's not about making stuff in china. keep it what it was. >> you know, john, the 99%ers, that went on for awhile. could this go on and ruin christmas? >> no. i think they are going to get bored. they will go to another cause. i have worked with at risk kids programs. i have never seen any of these people when you have real people that need help. you put a camera out there and iphone and let them get media. that's when they show up. they are criminals. they are not doing any good and not doing anything to change the system. >> tracy, last word? >> it's too cold to protest. may have lost sight of what happened in the first place. nobody cares about the protest. everyone cares about eric garner. >> thanks. cashing in, eric, what do you have coming up for us? >> brenda, new fallout from the release of the cia interrogation
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report. plus, forget hollywood is your personal info at risk where you work? the cashing in crew is on that. see you at 11:30. >> thanks. up here first, think gas and oil prices plunging is a good thing? what if i told you it's a sign of a bad thing coming soon? (trader vo) i search. i research. i dig. and dig some more. because, for me, the challenge of the search... is almost as exciting as the thrill of the find. (announcer) at scottrade, we share your passion for trading. that's why we rebuilt scottrade elite from the ground up - including a proprietary momentum indicator that makes researching sectors and industries even easier. because at scottrade, our passion is to power yours.
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but hurry! sleep train's interest free for 3 event is ending soon. ...guaranteed! ♪ sleep train ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ . gas down, oil way down. we haven't seen prices like this in five years. that's putting more money in
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drivers pockets. before you start whooping it up, jonas, you say listen up. >> domestic airline stocks, you don't want too much of a good thing. you don't want oil to go below $50 a barrel. it is systematic of a global recession. itis probably started everywhere except the united states. it's a sign demand is not dropping because we got rid of the clunkers. let's not hope for $1.50 gas. that means we are in trouble. we are at a good level now. >> chuck, aren't you hoping for that? >> i grew up in east texas. i'm not your daddy's liberal. we love gas. we love cheap gas. we love cheap gas like a big kid loves cake. we have jobs in the oil industry. i found out a cousin in texas got laid off because of getting
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oil and gas. it's a win and a loss. >> okay, john, i bet you have a pick up or two. >> i have a couple and they got four to five miles to the gallon. in november, 40% of old permits, we were down 40%. since december, 2007, shell drilling increases 1.36 million. state that is don't are down 432,000. it is a job creator. overall, the benefit of lower gas prices help the middle class and lower incomes specifically. it is like an economic stimulus. >> tax on top of it. if you look at your portfolio, odds are good you are at the energy sector. stuff like this keeps happening. you have to worry about jobs, even a t the companies.
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what about civil unrest in countries that rely on oil for profit? what about when venezuela is struggling to begin with. we bring them down further, you have to worry, to jonas' point, what's going on in the global economy. >> gary, b., people have more money in their pockets. they are saying that's helping the economy and the retail season. >> exactly. there's two sides to it. it depends. we really don't know the cause. one, you point out that people are getting an average family $1200 extra per year through the gasoline savings. itis not significant. that is a tax cut. jonas points out it may be indicative of, you know, not enough demand out there. we enter a global recession. that could be the case. we don't know right now if we have too much oil or the demand is too low. either could push the scale. i happen to side with jonas.
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i don't think the low oil price causes the recession, but it's indicative out there that, you know, countries like china and japan and even to a certain extent, the u.s. aren't having enough demand out there to keep the price up. if it does plummet, maybe it's foreshadowing that we could be in for another rough few years in the economy. >> i challenge the notion because bas is cheaper, people have more money in their pocket. if it's not going to gas, it's probably going to the grocery store. i don't think anyone feels richer. no one is planning a family vacation because of it. i don't think that plays into why the price of oil keeps going down. >> that's got to be the last word. thanks, guys. thank you, chuck, for joining us. coming up, illegal smuggling. drugs in the u.s. is suing the u.s. because he was bit by a border dog. bordering on insane?
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time for predictions. gary b., what do you have for us? >> holidays used to mean going out to the movies, now it's staying in. i love netflix it's up 50%. >> jonas, do you like that? >> an oldie but goody. >> john, your prediction. >> i know airlines. delta is the best u.s. carrier. up 20% in a year. >> man, you have frequent flyer miles, don't you? >> i have enough to take the space shuttle. >> gary, b., what do you think? bull or bear? >> can't keep aloft. a bad day friday. goes down from here. >> jonas? >> little rippers and regulations. taken out by the budget bill. swap some cash into vanguard. >> john, bull or bear?
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>> could be a rousing rate. >> tracy? >> here is what's wrong with our country. a mexican smuggling marijuana into our country gets mauled by a dog and wants to sue us. huh? >> doesn't make sense. neil is next. the case of tortured logic that's making very little sense. liberals in a rush to release the cia torture report, not so much of a rush to see the gruber videos. never mind the cia saying could endanger lives. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. the hypocrisy that appears over the top. here is the thing about transparency, you have to be transparent about everything, not just the stuff you hope embarrasses the last administration, but the stuff that embarrasses this administration.


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